Daniel Schmachtenberger 3:01:40 Eric Weinstein 2:14:38 Dr. Andrew Huberman is the founder and main researcher at Huberman Labs. Because it's basically saying. And so generally, this situation happens that we have a near term incentive to pursue some advantage, but where the disadvantage of that thing might happen over a much longer term. I can make different choices. It's been, you know, increasing wealth and and so. And the reduction of this, the thing is, I can't reduce totally unique things to a fungible metric. standard evolutionary and economic environments based on scarcity and rivalrous goods). And so part of the answer is how do we actually increase the abundance but not In exponential abundance, because we're talking about also steady state population and using an A lot of shared resources. And if I have critiques of the dominant system, I'm usually going to do less well in it, which means less power will get conferred to those ideas, and so there's kind of a mimetic selection Right, like the memes that, that do well, and that being the memes that propagate, but do well within a current system. There is a version of evolutionary theory which states that there needs to be crisis that needs to be a function for showing that you are better in order to keep individuals. I don't know what to call it exactly, but non violent alternatives. If Obviously, up until the Industrial Revolution, they were about a half a billion people on the planet at most. And in fact, there is something. The through-line of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal. That's a very bad recipe.
Hurting people unnecessarily, doing things that cause isolation, and staying stuck in limiting ego patterns also fall in the short list of main regrets. Well, let me try it again. one actually knew formulating deciding to work over the class. First thing is you're pointing out we're not on the efficient frontier. So now we go from rival risk not just to non rival risk, which is uncoupled, but anti rival risk, meaning you getting ahead necessarily equals me getting ahead. Metametaphysics - David Chalmers (Editor), David Manley (Editor), Ryan Wasserman (Editor) Appreciate that. This page was last modified on 10 October 2022, at 16:46. I think that the human condition can do both of those. Daniel Schmachtenberger 1:26:05 This is a summary of episode #27 of Eric Weinstein's The Portal ' On Avoiding Apocalypses ' with Daniel Schmachtenberger. I can be okay with you having something and want to share it or share in that type of phenomena. Yeah, I don't think it ever has. You know, I've been asked four times to the National Academy of Sciences to discuss this. I mean, it just, there's so many hours of audio of us. Yeah, that's the first part of it. Daniel Schmachtenberger 26:35 Eric Weinstein 1:15:20 People always think about? And if I did defect, because I had a head injury, the system would have the intelligence to be able to notice that and deal with it. They weren't fooled into thinking that this was an easy game. Touching on the meta crisis, the ecology of commmunication, the challenge of holding multiple perspectives in your mind at the same time, and even "who's going to do the dishes?", and much more. Towards these ends, he's had a particular interest in the topics of catastrophic and . But the Dunbar limit seems to be a pretty hard limit on that kind of information. Yeah, if it doesn't in the game, right? I think it's a little bit like, Wow, my first my first taste of heroin was pretty sweet. Eric Weinstein 28:26 One possibility is is that we need to amplify the people who can live peaceably. And by virtue of our luck and our luck alone, we are completely confused as to how perilous the present moment is. Do you mean this? obviously birth rate is higher where there's poverty and we might lose some kids, right? I don't think that we can keep running a exponential capital. Eric Weinstein 58:45 But here's what I see that I think of as being really interesting and rather mysterious. You know, like, really important questions, right? Daniel Schmachtenberger Expand search. And instead, that we can start to have abundance, particularly where we decouple and learn more about recycling, so that finite resources are much better appreciated for what they are that we can get. firstScriptTag.parentNode.insertBefore(tag, firstScriptTag);
We don't have people competing for cancer carriers that aren't sharing information with each other. What right do we have to try to change someone? Right, the Malthusian situation is both the geometric production reproduction of humans and the arithmetic reproduction of resources. And I don't think they were able to figure out coordination mechanisms that are adequately effective at scale. I am terrified, for example, and you know, the famously the James d'amour situation, where you start going after very bright sort of spectrummy people. and it also ends up introducing both a fundamental thing about the problem and the solution. Thank you so much nora bateson and Daniel Schmachtenberger for your beautiful conversation on learning how to be in the world. So there's either not enough or there's not going to be enough certain point. You see in every competitive game, whether it's a poker bluff or football game where you fake one way and go the other way, a incentive to dis inform, right. And even if we make the agreement, we're pretty sure the other guy is secretly defecting on the agreement in the basement. I don't know what your story is. The way it is in our in our governance, but somehow delivering us to a new structure, I don't know whether that's going to be through human enhancement through a cultural change through re incentivizing the world. My Account. Well, I like that a lot. Daniel in particular favors the wisdom and design branch of the human fate decision tree, a branch that I think probably deserves the second most attention after my personal favorite, which is the need for new physics with the possibility of escape to the distant cosmos. Well, I think we just we do happen to have some good friends in common and people who have similar interests in terms of how to do better thinking how to make civilization better make society better. Who do I want to have status who do I not want to have status do I trust I've a friend who is the nicest person in the world except when he's doing well and then it becomes very difficult to deal with, you know, so that like, there's the person who's fine on one glass of alcohol and you don't want them to have three. Many people can have the same sexual partner, you start to get into all of these very funny areas where status, for example, is a very weird commodity. It's not a major game theoretic advance, what we're saying is that we, that that phenomena creates a lot of different race to the bottom type scenarios. I'll take them to heart. First of all, you're going to point out to me, that there are all sorts of interesting things that have not been really effectively scaled up to your point about Buddhism and Jains and what have you. People are very competent, and they're long standing rivalries and hatreds. and so for example, you're polluting as part of a furniture plant that employs lots of people and make something people need. I had an experience at some point your answer requires a warp drive.
And it's Yes, it's the intersection of all those into a kind of civilizational system. But as I get healthier, my baseline of pleasure throughout not just when I'm eating, but all of the time goes up, because I have the capacity to engage in more interesting, meaningful things, and my body doesn't hurt as much and whatever. Eric Weinstein 58:29 And so we start getting more and more of a situation where I want you to have access to more things because as you're more creative than I get access to more things that are the result of your creativity. And so it's great fun for Republicans to say, yes, the democrat con, you know, whoa, that doesn't sound good. Were those back to back hits of Meltzer at all stockpiling ventilators for influenza pandemic. Under this new guidance, we will require people to remove tweets. Yeah. // event.target.seekTo(1);
Daniel Schmachtenberger 2:28:28 And you had some desire to create something that seems impossible, which is the United States of Europe. so if I'm understanding where you're headed, what you're saying is is that the market is is kind of a precursor to an AGI. Non nation states are gaining the capacity to be able to do even drone tech like we had the the first everybody's who's thought about it has been like, when are we going to have a really big problem with drones and a couple years ago was the first time in the Ukraine where a commercial drone with a homemade thermite bomb, dropped it on a munitions factory. Daniel Schmachtenberger 1:48:21 So then we sell it to Mexico that doesn't have the law, and then we buy the produce back from Mexico. Eric Weinstein 0:06 And I've always watched as people get their cognitive dissonance to zero, using two totally different mental strategies. If you give, if you educate women, the opportunity costs of staying home and raising children starts to impress itself and some people will have fewer children. I think that's kind of the way that a lot of people think about markets in relationship to evolution. I mean, you know, the odd thing that I have in being the friend and the employee of a billionaire, is that I sometimes get to borrow his life. But I'm not doing the pollution as a person. And so with a finite amount of stuff The more stuff you possess, the less stuff I have access to rival risk basis. Daniel Schmachtenberger 3:09:29 grimace. as a resource per capita utilization so much that if we could do such a thing, it'd become the new attractive basin to which civilizations would want to flow. And that also means that we're not going to know how to deal with failures of it. Unknown Speaker 1:21:45 Eric Weinstein 2:18:31 'color': 'white'
Don't figure out how to make really good bioweapons. Berger an important node in the system. Daniel Schmachtenberger is a member of the Neurohacker Collective and founder of the Emergence Project. Eric Weinstein 1:16:22 go together. The throughline of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal. You know, there. I think that that would not be sufficient on its own, but it's necessary. Our social life is essential to our wellbeing and health, Noise and distractions can boost your creativity **, When it comes to lectures, appearances can be deceiving **, Eric Mazur thought he was a good teacher until he discovered his students were just memorizing information, It is not true that 93% of our communication is nonverbal, The New Science of Building Great Teams **, 35% of variation in team performance is accounted for by the amount of face-to-face communication, We are more creative when walking than sitting down, Exploring the Effects of Ambient Noise on Creative Cognition, The way in which two or more people are connected, Discourse - a verbal interchange of ideas especially conversation, A deep appreciation, respect, and love for the universe, the world, all life, and humanity, Conversations trigger changes in the brain, All meaningful communication occurs via storytelling or reporting of event, Confusing or meaningless language about New Age beliefs, Lacks the rigor essential to the scientific method. well, I agree that we're not good stewards of power. Because it can, it can grow its intelligence to outcompete whoever's competing for those paper clips faster than they can. Eric Weinstein 3:22:48 Daniel Schmachtenberger is a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue. Eric Weinstein 3:07:02 Bind predative power asymmetries where said asymmetries tend to confer the power to protect and advance themselves? Daniel Schmachtenberger 2:14:46 And then oftentimes what they pass on is the stuff they figured out but not the psychology in them in the capacities to figure stuff out to the generator function of the civilizational models. And he's made his home available to me. So what I'm about to say in terms of what I think healthy psychology is, it's not the current definition of healthy psychology. Well, it's also just funny. Conversation is king. On the internet. How do we create a world that is antifragile factoring increasingly decentralized exponential technologies? Well, I traveled I am from San Francisco to do this. Today's guest: Daniel Schmachtenberger. Eric Weinstein 2:37:31 They can be used to build even better systems. We celebrate when our team wins and the other team loses so we can collectively decouple our empathy from other human beings arbitrarily, so that we can then feel good in a war supporting you know, when that type of thing occurs, and we get conditioned that second places The first loser and all those types of things. And so there is kind of an incentive for optimism about the dominant system if I want to do well in the dominant system. This doesn't get to happen forever. Well, look, this is why I've called for a return to above ground nuclear testing, because my belief is, is that we, you laugh, but I'm not kidding. Okay, so this is, this is important about obviously stupidly wrong. Talking with each other beats talking to ourselves, Conversation is anything but soft and wooly, Lets have more interesting conversations, Implicit knowledge isn't there the way ore is buried, Bake conversation into all that we do **, There are so many ways to leverage conversation, Our sense of humor is something we find hard to fake or suppress, Conversation is not a panacea for all our problems **, To influence people through speech or writing, The ability to express oneself in and understand spoken language. And not just no incentive for disinformation, but also no incentive for information withholding. And if you read like, if you read Ellsberg Doomsday machine, it is kind of lucky that we haven't blown ourselves up because there were a lot of just mistakes that should have blown us up, right. So you basically have a finite amount of atoms. Well, he hadn't got to the point that some cultures went into negative population amounts and lower birth rates without an imposition. And there was a part of me that cared about status. Well, I mean, we could call it global GDP is one very simplified metric. not understand. There's a really like, so if I understand you correctly, people don't. Nobody's gonna run the story. And remember, I was saying earlier that I think dominant paradigms Co Op psychology to define healthy psychology is supportive of the paradigm. Better sense making systems where we can actually solve problems without causing worse problems, which we're not historically good at is also necessary. Eric Weinstein 2:03:40 standard evolutionary and economic environments based on scarcity and rivalrous goods). So my belief is, is that during that period of time, there was very swift retribution for anyone who dissented, famously, a prominent trade theorist who was talking about the benefits of restriction of trade restrictions for infant industries, let's say, apparently got a call from one of the people hired In the field, so you seem to be a very bright young man. And if there's a really big choice to make, everybody can sit around a tribal circle and actually be able to say something about it. Here's how, here's how it works. And it's like, fuck do we get out of that. He said, Why is it This, why is this America's problem? Daniel Schmachtenberger 52:55 And the idea that you can be both Xena philic fascinated and interested in the world's cultures and want immigration to your country restricted, and that this is the generic position that the average person holds this position is a story that appears nowhere. so we can say that what's particularly a primary thing that's particularly unique adaptively about homosapiens Yeah, is our capacity for techni. You think that that our world and our society is thinking properly about where it is at this point in human history? Daniel Schmachtenberger 2:40:40 Daniel Schmachtenberger 1:25:55 But I think what is ubiquitous is psychopathology. One is the, the, what is the minimal level of violence and coercion needed to bring about some of these changes. Eric Weinstein 1:45:35 And so the cheapest thing to do is not to kill anybody. Okay. It seems to have integrity seems to have mindshare. If the gazelle gets away, the lion might die, right? is a French expression is not sufficient. And so if we're talking about limited amount of oceanfront, then this is where we say, Well, can we do seasteading and create a lot of ocean front that is really awesome. Which is, which is this thing we think of as politics, right? Our rival risks game theoretic structures, some in group competing against somehow group and we can play coordination games where we'll coordinate with each other if it's more advantageous, but we reserve the right to defect and go zero sum on each other if that's more advantageous. Eric Weinstein 3:05:15 And no, I'm not concerned that the birth rate will just collapse forever.
But if we look at biodiversity loss, or species extinction, or growing dead zones in the ocean, or any of these issues, not just climate change, we can see that we have we have a linear materials economy that takes resources from the earth unreasonably and produce There's a bunch of pollution, waste, heat, whatever, in the process of manufacturing transportation, and then turns them into trash on this side. We were kind of shocked and flipped out and the economy wasn't in great shape. Mostly because mostly addiction and student debt and information overwhelm and those things deal with the people adequately. Yeah, but I think where you're where you're headed, is super interesting. Daniel Schmachtenberger 1:02:05 I mean, from my perspective, can you imagine making that decision that you can flick it as far left as Brett And you're gonna spend your credibility pretending that he's like, allied with the Nazis. Encompasses the things you can do something about that concern you. That's pretty be straightforward and that we're actually very near limits of our capacity to keep doing that on a bunch of different atomic cycles. In particular, the disk or distributed idea suppression complex introduced in Episode 18, appears to be in full swing. That is, we are subsidizing our growth with savings accounts that are finite. I can't tell you how much great feedback we've gotten super constructive and hoping that they will. And then you wait for the collapse to come. Closed-Loop Economies. And we start to see a potential for this if we think about something like an Uber and then we think about self driving Uber that then has a blockchain that disintermediate that being a central company, and being a Commonwealth resource where those were you having access to it doesn't decrease my access, so we're not rivalrous anymore. Now this is a concept I wanted to bring up in terms of what you're saying about your brother. Daniel Schmachtenberger 2:59:59 It's not going to be a good thing right now. No, I obviously don't think that we're thinking very well about it. If you have an inclination or yearning towards planetary systemic health for all, then you will feel thrilled when you hear other souls that have dedicated So it goes from barter, to currency to fiat currency to fractional reserve process to complex financial instruments to high speed trading on those, those are like the increase in its capacity to do that, but specifically now it is a incentive for all the humans to do certain things. Daniel Schmachtenberger 2:16:46 E. E s? 02:44:30 - That's just crazy-talk, but. 02:46:10 - Scaling collective consciousness, 02:48:00 - Motivating social engineering, 02:50:10 - Bribing away military conflict, 02:50:30 - Summarizing for test and avoiding group selection as subject, 02:54:30 - Reservations and questions: Violence and ownership. And then as total economic quality of life and the choice possibilities for women and education and other things go up, we start getting to much lower birth rates. Eric Weinstein 1:11:29 So where So, this is an example of removing some of the basis of rivalry associate with balance sheets, okay. Daniel Schmachtenberger 54:26 And which means not a linear materials economy. It's trying to make a strong anti thesis to the standard evolutionary history of homosapiens thesis. And we see that the whole sense making apparatus is breaking down from the Trump election. So they are certainly taking this quite seriously. I think I'm on your side. Daniel Schmachtenberger 2:08:13 And then we go as soon as soon as the Industrial Revolution and our ability to extract resources at faster than their reproduction amounts from the biosphere. Or perhaps the entire Gomez family is turned away from a Queen's er are made to wait for ICU beds that never materialized while there's still time to save three out of their four members? My brother is called this, I think did a beautiful job describing this. But then dealing with that rivalry keeps increasing coordination costs keeps, you know, creating disinformation systems where we can't coordinate effectively. That's why I say we have to think of profit as one aspect of kind of power or rivalrous dynamic more largely because it's, I think, government or academia or religious or cultural groups or profit can all influence the nature of narrative and information. Because in nature you will see rivalry you'll see, obviously one. And it truly to induce Martin Luther King, Jr. to suicide through a letter from Sullivan, who was I think, number one or number two, maybe under Hoover, and this thing lived inside of the FBI. All the different things conflict, emotion resources, and sexuality is obviously one of the big questions. You know, rivalry abounds. So again, think about the education associated with some religions, bringing about less violence, the education associated with some cultures, bringing about higher average cognitive capacity, and being able to bring those together. Because the thing that wins at the game of rivalry get selected for and so there is this kind of learning of how to get better at rivalry, games, learning across the system as a whole, which which things win and war, which things keep more people believing the thing, which keep people from a trading out of the thing like that. And I think the reason we can't think about it that way, and also the reason why we don't see whether it's ants or whether it's cells in the body or anything, why we don't see examples of the kinds of coordination in nature that will apply to humans, is I think that the development of technology both language and social coordination technologies and physical technologies, but our capacity for abstraction, and then things that increase our power via abstraction as opposed to their power increases. 'Humanity's Phase Shift', Daniel Schmachtenberger Watch on Governance solutions - Ethical downward selection is mentioned. in my virtual reality, and even have much more fantastic places and so I agree that bits have some ability to create wild abundance that goes non rivalrous. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. Yeah. Well, little bits and religions. He has an eclectic educational background, mostly from outside of institutional settings, in the natural sciences, social sciences, and philosophywith an emphasis in the epistemics needed to better approach wicked problems, and the ethical considerations to inform the design criteria for adequate solutions. not hard for me to imagine. If I say it's awesome. So even though the system is an animate the people People who are doing well edit or animate. So, how we deal with the balance sheet part? Do you find, of course, yeah. Content is just something to talk about. And in some of my worlds, this stuff strikes people as loopy. 02:21:00 - Population decline and steady state population and green energy, 02:22:00 - Embracing population decline and selection for non-agressive traits. That's a very short version of it. Daniel Schmachtenberger 3:29:02 Not very long that we've had that. Daniel Schmachtenberger 3:18:30 Hmm. As Daniel puts it: The medical system is mostly not oriented toward optimizing human flourishing - it's oriented toward treating acute illness. And but to start to go into what it would look like, we have to do, I would have to have it make any sense describe what I think the problems are why the current system is self terminating, and why all the systems that we have ever had have been self terminating, because God actually defined the problem properly to be able to say, because that gives me necessary and sufficient criteria for what an adequate solution would have to address. Yeah, self perpetuating self authoring. So this is the weird thing that I'm I'm finding is that you can't start interesting conversations not only about the pessimism of the impending collapse if we keep this up, but about the optimism, well, what might we do differently? And the most awesome thing about the current system is we don't even have to deal with protesters with tear gas or beanbags or whatever. If I am perfectly ethical, I'm going to lose in politics because I won't be able to get anybody to support me whatever. Daniel Schmachtenberger 56:10 Ethics and academia and whatever to basically say, the, the behaviors that support the system are good. All right. I agree. Bio. You do a great job with it. playerVars: {
Because there's a diminishing return on the collective intelligence of the system as a function of more scale. Develop your interpersonal and conversational skills, The Knowledge Caf is a powerful collective sense-making tool. Are you self destruct? Yeah. Using one's words to prevent, de-escalate, or end an attempted assault. We will enforce this in close coordination with trusted partners including public health authorities and governments Continue to use and consult with information from those sources when reviewing content. var firstScriptTag = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0];
So I don't have priors. And so you have to be able to cycle the atoms within the energy bandwidth. This is the federal government talking about cheapening the image of a Hollywood star because she was interested in in radical black politics. And this is both some evolution in our epistemic sand our actual processes of clay sense making and collective coordination.
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